With Mike Gallagher – See transcript below.
Mike Gallagher: Got a lot of interesting warriors that are in the battle. And Frank Gaffney is somebody I’ve followed and admired for years. He’s the founder and executive chairman of the Center for Security Policy in Washington, DC. He’s got a book out that every I’ve got a colleague, Hugh Hewitt, who every morning says China is everything right now. If we are not paying attention to what’s happening with China, we’re in big, big trouble. Frank’s book is called The Indictment Prosecuting the Chinese Communist Party and Friends for Crimes Against America, China and the World. Gordon Chang, who I follow on Twitter in one of in one of the endorsements for for Frank’s book, says it’s time to defend the United States of America. It’s time to indict the Communist Party of China. It’s time to read the indictment. Well, it’s time to talk to the author, Frank Gaffney. It’s great having you in person here at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention.
Frank Gaffney: Well, I have admired you for a long time and followed you as well. And it’s great to be [00:01:00] with you.
Mike Gallagher: Thank you. It’s an honor. And I’m so excited about your book, because if I if you listen to Gordon Chang, I mean, everything I do and I do, too. And let me tell you something, he’s a wake up call because he’s continually warning us about China. Hugh has been sounding a clarion call. A lot of us, you understand it better than most. But let’s be real for a moment. Most Americans have no comprehension of the depth of China’s sort of insidious role that it plays in the United States of America. Am I right?
Frank Gaffney: You’re right. And yet the good news, if there is any, is there’s an old line, and I’m sure you’re familiar with it, that a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged by reality. Right. An awful lot of us have been mugged by the reality of a Chinese biological warfare attack against this country. It’s killed a million plus of us, impoverished many. Disrupted our lives. Taken some of our freedoms. So there’s an appreciation that there’s something [00:02:00] wrong with China. But you’re right, they don’t understand how wrong. And that’s the purpose of the book. And speaking of Gordon Chang. Gordon was not only one of the endorsers, thank you very much to Gordon, but also one of the contributors to it in the sense that he participated in a number of the webinars that we’ve conducted under the banner of the Committee on the present Danger China, which I’m the Vice chairman. I moderated them, so I’m a little close to it to say objectively, But I think that these are among the most important video content in the world at the moment because it focuses on two specific themes that help the American people understand what we’re up against. One, what’s the nature of the unrestricted warfare that China has been waging against us? That’s its description, by the way, for over two decades. Literally, literally. What kind of damage has it done and what have the costs been as a result? 0.1, 0.2. Who are the people who’ve been helping them do it in [00:03:00] our country, what they call their friends? And when we put all that together and then tried to sort of distill it down so it would be a little bit more accessible than 100 hours of video.
Frank Gaffney: Mike, you come away with an appreciation that what we’re dealing with is the greatest existential threat to freedom. This is my old boss, Ronald Reagan would say, right in history. And they’re coming for us. The trouble is, and one of the reasons why we think this book is really required reading is there no longer, it seems, content to take us down with what are called pre kinetic, nonviolent military, though that biological warfare attack is kind of a gray area, to say the least. But we think that we’re poised now for a shooting war. Wow. And this is why, you know, Hugh and others are rightly warning we’ve got to get on top of this. And in addition to the nine charges [00:04:00] in this indictment, starting with the crimes against humanity on a scale unimaginable, 100 million people killed, 400 million more killed in the womb. Nobody in history, no combination of tyrants in history has done anything remotely like that. And the most important takeaway from that is if that’s how they treat their own people, Right. What are they going to do? Two hours to an enemy? Yeah. And then the other charges break out the various lines of attack of that unrestricted warfare. And then we have 20 specific actionable steps that need to be taken now to preserve.
Mike Gallagher: It’s a fascinating read. I’m two chapters in, as I told you last night, the indictment by Frank Gaffney, foreword by Steve Bannon. I mean, there’s a there’s a lot of a lot of power and a powerful, passionate delivery of this of this message that we’ve got to be aware of what China, what we’re up against with China. And today’s a big day politically. Frank And I want to ask you about President Trump. Governor DeSantis, one of those two, I think will [00:05:00] be the Republican nominee. Who knows what’ll happen? My dream ticket is a Trump DeSantis ticket because that’s not stoppable. I don’t know if that’s even going to be even conceivable. But it seems like the Chinese Communist Party, as you write in the book, had a very powerful incentive to stop Trump from being elected. Big time. Big time. Can you talk a little bit about our our relationship with China and in particular through the prism of of who do they want in the Oval Office, Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis or Joe Biden?
Frank Gaffney: Well of that set of choices. They’ve got the one they wanted. That’s right. And I think they helped elect honestly and as important as anything else in this book is the line of attack that the Chinese have used with incredible success. The term for it, they call it is elite capture, Right. They have gone to great lengths. And it’s a it’s a. It’s [00:06:00] a penny out of the quadrillions of dollars that they spend on all kinds of things. Multiple billions. Yeah. But they’ve bought not only the financial sector of our country, the leadership business more generally, the media, as you know, Hollywood academia and of course the political elite as well.
Mike Gallagher: And sports and sports, NBA and.
Frank Gaffney: Just basically any elite you want to you want to look at.
Mike Gallagher: Ask LeBron James what his opinion is of the Chinese Communist Party. Good luck with that answer.
Frank Gaffney: He’s very high.
Mike Gallagher: Bought and paid for Xi.
Frank Gaffney: Jinping, frankly. But here’s the point. It’s not just Joe Biden. It’s this whole cohort of people who have misled us about the true danger that we’re facing from China, because they’re on the take, frankly. And with that, in the case of Joe Biden, he is enabling this threat in a big way. And I think encouraging the war, the shooting war that is now in prospect. [00:07:00] So so. What we have to get done. If nothing else in terms of these recommendations, is we have to compel the resignation from positions of power and influence. Maybe it’s impeachment, maybe it’s prosecution. But the people who are playing for the other team can’t lead ours, especially for heaven’s sakes, at a time of a shooting war, having the commander in chief of the United States military being a controlled asset of the Chinese Communist Party. It’s just not on.
Mike Gallagher: So back to my question again between Trump and DeSantis, I think it’s clear President Trump is no friend of the CCP. Have you have you studied enough? Ron DeSantis is unproven on the national stage. This is a Florida governor, but certainly he has he has expressed policy beliefs about on a foreign scale. What do we know about DeSantis and what will what will the Chinese Communist Party think of potentially [00:08:00] a president Ron DeSantis?
Frank Gaffney: I think President Trump understood the China threat long before he became president, wrote about it a lot, spoke about it incessantly. He was stymied in much of his presidency.
Mike Gallagher: Every step of the.
Frank Gaffney: Way by, among others, the administrative state, deep state. Sure. But Steve Mnuchin, most especially the secretary of the Treasury, was right out of that. Wall Street captured elite and he he was fighting him tooth and tong. So he’s got more that he would like to do for sure if he’s reelected and I think would do. Ron DeSantis does have a bit of a record. He was in Congress, of course, before, and he is also developed a bit of a record as governor of the state of Florida, going after things like having the Chinese buy property right in the state and Confucius Institutes and so.
Mike Gallagher: On, which incidentally signaled to me that at least to some degree, DeSantis gets it. He understands the Chinese threat.
Frank Gaffney: Look, I think he’s a very astute [00:09:00] fellow, and he does have a national security background. He served in the Navy. He is a guy who I believe, especially if, as is our hope, this book, the indictment, will be made available to everybody running for elective office. I mean, it’s enough to get the American people up to speed to a point. But what really needs to happen is to have the kind of course correction, Mike, that I saw in my youth that Ronald Reagan sort from, interestingly enough, a committee on the present danger right, to get a change from the way we were dealing with the last existential threat to freedom the Soviet Union, and not simply seek to appease it or even contain it, but to roll it back, put it on the ash heap of history. We need to do exactly the same thing with our times. And I think Ron DeSantis, I think Donald Trump, I hope everybody else seeking this nomination will be [00:10:00] equipped to prosecute the case as we say, at least in the court of public opinion against the Chinese Communist Party. And friends.
Mike Gallagher: Frank Gaffney, millions of us appreciate and respect and admire your work, and I hope everybody gets the book. In fact, I happen to have a website that makes it real easy for you to order it. The indictment Book.com the indictment dot prosecuting the Chinese Communist Party and Friends for crimes against America, China and the world. You’re not going to want to miss this book. Frank Gaffney, keep fighting the good fight. It’s great to see you here in person at the NRP. As you and I were talking about, you walk the halls here at the World Center, Orlando Marriott. It’s a God thing going on big time. It’s big time, Frank. This is.
Frank Gaffney: A spiritual war.
Mike Gallagher: A spiritual war. And we’re in it and we’re in it. We’re in the thick of it now. And you come to a place like this and you kind of remember that. You remember what the stakes are. Good versus evil is real next time.
Frank Gaffney: And we need God’s grace.
Mike Gallagher: We sure do more than ever. Thank you for coming by and joining us. My pleasure. Thanks, Frank. Frank Gaffney, get the book, the indictment again. The indictment book.com to [00:11:00] get his latest book. And it is fascinating work.