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Brian Thomas: 805 here 55 KB Talk Station Friday eve aka Thursday, iHeart media aviation expert Jay Ratliff at the bottom of the hour. Welcome back to Jay. I’m happy he’s back after a brief hiatus. And I’m pleased to welcome to the 55 morning show, Frank Gaffney. He is the founder and executive chairman of the Center for Security Policy is, which is a nonpartisan organization that champions peace through strength. Vice chairman of the Committee on the Present [00:01:30] Danger China and the host of Securing America with Frank Gaffney, which you probably know, daily television program on the Real America Voice Network heard nationally, also on the American Family Radio Network. He also has a syndicated program called Secure Freedom Minute, which is on hundreds of stations nationwide, also acted as President Ronald Reagan’s assistant secretary of defense for international security policy, which means he knows a whole lot about US USSR relations, nuclear forces, arms control, missile defense. [00:02:00] Et cetera. He’s here today to talk about his new book, The Indictment Press Executing the Chinese Communist Party and Friends for Crimes Against America, China and the World. Frank Gaffney, welcome to the 55 Kerr Morning Show. It’s a distinct pleasure to have you on today.
Frank Gaffney: Well, it’s my honor. Thank you so much for having me.
Brian Thomas: All right. I think about Reagan dealing with the Soviets. I’m at least, thankfully, old enough to remember the negotiations, the arms treaties, the failed arms treaties, the efforts for us to, [00:02:30] well, get rid of the Soviet Union, at least insofar as it existed. That worked. And I think part of the way it worked is we didn’t trade with them. We didn’t engage in commerce and industry with them. We weren’t inextricably hooked to the umbilical cord of the Soviet Union. The way we are with China. China is really different because ever since the Nixon administration we’ve been working with them. They were viewed as a foe of Russia. So I guess that’s one of the reasons we cottoned to them. I don’t know. But we have got such a relationship with China, all [00:03:00] everything’s manufactured by China. Our drugs come from China, everything related to the green, new deals related to China. How can we stop them just sort of as on a 10,000 foot level when to stop dealing with them and supporting their military and their economy would mean sort of a at least close to an existential threat to us.
Frank Gaffney: It’s a great question, and I so appreciate your corporate memory on what Ronald Reagan did. And I was [00:03:30] a small part of it in the time I was in the Defense Department to end the last totalitarian communist regime that sought the destruction of our country. And as the Soviets used to say, Brian, it’s no accident, comrade, that the Chinese have become deeply engaged with us. It was one of the takeaways. You’re right. Things began in, you know, the Nixon administration, but they really kicked into [00:04:00] high gear when a guy by the name of Deng Xiaoping, who was then the general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, the dictator of the place back in the early 1990s, witnessed the fall of the Soviet Union and said, memorably, the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union has ended. The Soviets lost. A new Cold War has begun between the United States and China, and China will win. And [00:04:30] he said about a deliberate policy, he called it the hide and bide strategy to conceal their true intents, the desire, their ambition, their preoccupation with becoming the world’s hegemon, the dominant power, which, of course required getting rid of the one that stood in the way, namely ours. But the way they were going to do it was to engage. [00:05:00] Yes, as they call it now. Detente was what they called it back in the Soviet era, to get access to our technology, to our knowhow, to our financing, most especially some 3 to $6 trillion of American capital markets.
Frank Gaffney: Wealth. That means your money, folks. Pension funds, mutual funds, 401. K plans like that has been migrated by Wall Street to China to help finance all of the bad things that they’ve been doing ever since, including their [00:05:30] military buildup. But our book, The Indictment, Brian, and thank you for mentioning it. Now, a bestseller. Amazingly, yes, sir. In its second day at Amazon at least, is about how this is being perpetrated. This this unrestricted warfare, as they’ve called it in China has been pursued in the form of economic warfare, political subversion, information operations, influence, [00:06:00] elite capture, most especially as they have described it, and so much more. Biological warfare attack hollowing out our military again, thanks in no small measure to what they call their friends, those on Wall Street, those in the business leadership, those in politics, those in academia, in the media and so on. And this story must out because if we are to save our country, if we are to survive this onslaught, we [00:06:30] have to understand what they’re doing. And that’s the most important part of the indictment. But we also have 20 specific action items that we recommend to try to answer your specific question about what do we.
Brian Thomas: Do well, and we’re going to get to that just a second. Of course, in paraphrase form, because I want everyone to get a copy of your book, like so many other people are doing the indictment, which they can do at 55 Krqe.com, my producer already put a link up to buy the book for you, I guess. Was it were we duped into believing that we could win over the hearts and minds of the Chinese through economic advancement? Oh, [00:07:00] all we need to do is show them the benefits of capitalism. They’re all going to have stuff in things they’re going to convert from their Chinese Communist Party ways. Didn’t anyone read Mao’s Little Red Book? I mean, I got my own copy when I was in Chinatown in San Francisco many, many years ago, decades ago. I mean, I’ve read it. They hate us. This is part of their their being. The United States is evil, period, end of story. And so they would do anything they could from a philosophical, political, philosophical standpoint to undermine us, which would mean working with us to get to gain the advantages [00:07:30] that you just talked about.
Frank Gaffney: Yeah, you framed that question brilliantly, if I may say, because we were led to believe that the Chinese people would become our friends and would work with us and benefit from being made rich and having opportunities that they don’t currently have. I still think that’s true. Look no further than Taiwan, where you see people with the industry and the skills and the talent. [00:08:00] The attitudes of people there, the aspirations for freedom are, you know, making incredible progress in that that I call it country of Taiwan. But the people of China don’t have a say in any of this. Of course, the people who run the place, the people who have killed over 100 million of them, and that doesn’t count, by the way, Brian, 4 to 500 million, perhaps others they’ve [00:08:30] killed in the womb. Oh, yes. These are the kinds of things that make it clear. Our problem is with the Chinese Communist Party or CCP. And the idea that anybody had, whether it was initially Henry Kissinger or whether it was Bill Clinton or George W Bush or George H.W. Bush, most especially that we could just do business with and enrich the Chinese Communist Party and that that would end well [00:09:00] was lunatic. And it has put us in this position where we’ve paid for them to now have not only this unbelievable capability, which you described very well a moment ago, of of making us so dependent upon them that any supply chain they choose to cut off, whether it’s medicine or whether it’s flat screens or chips or, oh, I don’t know.
Brian Thomas: Rare earth metals, rare earth materials. Yes, sir.
Frank Gaffney: Very, very devastating. Right. But here’s [00:09:30] the thing. They’re also now. Thanks to that money transfer, thanks to our technology, thanks to our knowhow, thanks to our training, their students. Et cetera. Et cetera. They’re, I believe, at the point where Xi Jinping thinks he has the option now, not only to wage unrestricted, as you might call it, pre kinetic warfare, but the old fashioned kind, the shooting war against Taiwan. Yes, but against us as well. Well, we must prevent that from happening.
Brian Thomas: And, of course, we put ourselves in that position by [00:10:00] going out and fighting all of these, well, undeclared wars. I mean, 20 years in Afghanistan with very little, if nothing to show for it. Our resources are depleted. We’re depleting them even further with the funding of Ukraine to our disadvantage. This just seems to me like I mean, I can see Xi Jinping just sitting in his at his desk with his feet up and his popcorn on his lap, laughing his butt off over over this fool’s errand we seem to be on. But moving over to the indictment now, I’m a litigation attorney by trade. I’m a recovering lawyer. I’ve been doing this [00:10:30] program for my 17th year, but I practice litigation for 16 years. My initial reaction you’ve identified in the book, we’re talking about the indictment, nine criminal charges that can and you say must be brought and prosecuted maybe in the court of public opinion. But my first reaction is, well, is there a venue in which any charge could actually be brought? And I’m kind of curious to know about the charges you’re talking about. You know, are we going to go to a world court? Is there some way we can bring them into court here? I think they might fight extradition If if I may be so bold. What are we talking about? [00:11:00]
Frank Gaffney: Well, I’m so glad to talk to you about this, because it’s really the key, crucial, crucial, crucial piece of this. I think we have to prosecute this in the court of public opinion at a minimum. My old boss, Ronald Reagan, of course, did that with the Soviets and calling them the evil empire and de legitimating them and helping to cut them off from their cash flow, which ultimately helped with his military buildup and the Strategic Defense Initiative and all the rest [00:11:30] to take down without firing a shot, by the way, the Soviet Union. What we need to be doing now similarly is delegitimizing that Chinese Communist Party. Yes. That has engaged in these crimes against humanity, against its own people and others. They call their people the Tibetans and the Uyghurs and so on. But also that has engaged in what we consider to be eight war crimes against our country. That’s because [00:12:00] the way we de-legitimize these guys and correctly describe them and begin dealing with them is not as a political party or even as a government in China, but as a transnational criminal organization. And why that’s so important is if we do that, I think it does set up the possibility of prosecution in courts of law. Certainly it sets up the prosecution option for their friends who are accomplices, [00:12:30] which.
Brian Thomas: Takes you back to corporate America.
Frank Gaffney: Racketeering participants. And my understanding, though you would know better, is that there are even individual civil and criminal courses of action against racketeering. Yes. That can be brought by people in our country. That opens up a whole new line of work for guys like yourself. It seems to me if you want to take on something that would not only possibly be very lucrative, but [00:13:00] also make a huge difference in the national security of the United States, Well.
Brian Thomas: We have a problem right now insofar as the court of public opinion is concerned. Ronald Reagan and a lot of the Democrats, of course, hated him, but he was a brilliant man communicating. He was the great communicator. Of course, Biden does not have those skill sets. We also have a problem with the division in America that didn’t exist to the extent it exists now compared to the Reagan era. I think everyone back in those days, you know, rallied around the idea of fighting communism and you went out and [00:13:30] you declared yourself a communist in the 1980s. You were going to be shunned by the world. Now, people actively and openly, you know, campaign on being a socialist or communist here in America, which is frightening. But you also have the corporate relationship, the big, fat moneyed interests who see 1.4 billion Chinese and compare that to the 350 million Americans and say that’s a better market to be in, that’s more lucrative. So you’re fighting that corporate battle that never would have been fought if you were trying to advocate against or further advocacy against the Soviet Union. The deck [00:14:00] seems to be well stacked against this, Frank.
Frank Gaffney: Again. It’s no accident, comrade. This is. This is Marxism at work. Cultural Marxism. It is the Chinese Communist Party. It is their fellow travelers in this country. It is those the elites that they have captured in the single most important piece of this book really is the damage that has been done as part of this unrestricted warfare they’ve waged against us by the [00:14:30] captured elites in our country. Joe Biden is just the most visible example of this. You say he hasn’t done much or he’s not a great communicator or he’s not saying the right sorts of things. He’s working for the Chinese Communist Party for the money. My colleagues calls him a controlled asset of the CCP. That has to stop these people, whether they’re in business, whether they’re in academia, whether they’re in the media, whether they’re in government, most especially have to be removed from office. They can’t. You know, if especially, Brian, we are at the cusp [00:15:00] of a shooting war with the Chinese Communist Party. We can’t possibly be led by people batting for the other team. That’s insane. It’s a formula for not only defeat, but humiliating and completely destructive defeat at that.
Brian Thomas: Frank You know, as we part company and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, everyone get a copy of the book, the indictment, prosecuting the Chinese Communist Party and Friends for Crimes Against America, China and the World compared to the Reagan era and the Soviet Union era. Frank, [00:15:30] that you and I are having this conversation is just I just want to describe it as it’s it’s frightening. It’s frightening.
Frank Gaffney: It is.
Brian Thomas: Get the.
Frank Gaffney: Information. By the way. Go ahead. Very quickly. I know you have to go, but just very quickly, this book is the product of webinars we’ve done, including one on Tuesday. You can find them for free at present. Danger China.org. This one was talking about what Joe Biden is doing today, most especially with our open borders, to allow a lot of young unaccompanied military aged men [00:16:00] coming into our country from China. Look, a lot like People’s Liberation Army operatives. This is going to get a lot uglier before it gets better, but we need to be alive to it. Thank you for your help and raising the alarm.
Brian Thomas: My pleasure. And thank you, Frank Abney, for writing the book. I’m going to encourage all my listeners to get it and share the love. Once you’ve read it, pass it along to a friend so we can start this public opinion campaign and fight back against this existential threat. Frank, great job. Thanks for the time today. I wish you all the best of health [00:16:30] and luck on selling the book.
Frank Gaffney: Thank you.
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